ADS and VPN
Jonathan Brown [Sep 5 2000, 20:29]
I am trying to setup a small VPN to test the speed of ADS using DSL/Cable
connections. We have a potential client that would like to run our
application using a VPN that connects 5 remote offices to the main office.
So far, I'm using Windows 95/98 machines connecting to a Windows 2000
machine. The application runs fine using ALS, but I am getting 6420 and 6610
errors when I try to use ADS. Is anyone out there successfully using ADS
across a VPN? If so, how speedy is it and how difficult is it to debug? I
think the problem I am having has to do with our WebRamp firewall thing, but
I cannot confirm this.
Jonathan Brown
Practice Technology, Inc.
Re: ADS and VPN
Chris Franz [Sep 7 2000, 18:30]
Jonathan,
We have several customers running Advantage applications through VPN
connections.
The 6420 error "Unable to find the Advantage Service or unable to find a
bindery on the network" is usually caused by a name resolution problem. You
should make sure that you can resolve the NetBios name of the Server running
Advantage from your workstations. This can usually be resolved using
DNS/WINS on your Windows 2000 server.
The 6610 "Client comm layer timed out waiting for acknowledgment of final
burst of packets sent to the Advantage Database Server" can be caused if
your firewall is not allowing UDP traffic in or out. You may need to
configure your firewall to allow UDP traffic through the VPN port.
Another option is to install the Advantage Application on the Windows 2000
server and use Terminal Services on your client machines.
Chris Franz
Advantage Technical Services.
"Jonathan Brown" <brown@prevail.net> wrote in message
news:39b54c9d@solutions.advantagedatabase.com...
> I am trying to setup a small VPN to test the speed of ADS using DSL/Cable
> connections. We have a potential client that would like to run our
> application using a VPN that connects 5 remote offices to the main office.
> So far, I'm using Windows 95/98 machines connecting to a Windows 2000
> machine. The application runs fine using ALS, but I am getting 6420 and
6610
> errors when I try to use ADS. Is anyone out there successfully using ADS
> across a VPN? If so, how speedy is it and how difficult is it to debug? I
> think the problem I am having has to do with our WebRamp firewall thing,
but
> I cannot confirm this.
>
> Jonathan Brown
> Practice Technology, Inc.
>
>
Re: ADS and VPN
Carlos Guanes [Mar 14 2001, 13:09]
I have the same problem that Jonathan. My server is a Windows 2000 and my
clients W98/W2k Pro. My connection is a DSL line and I haven't router, I am
using the routing service and the RASPPPOE protocol. When I connect to the
server I can to do a ping "servername" or ping xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx, and on the
server ping "clientname" ...working fine... I can map any share folder and
print on the share printer. But when I try to use my application I receive
the error msg "Unable to find the Advantage Service or unable to find a
bindery on the network". I have the Wins/DHCP on the server.
I find the same error when installed a second NIC on the server, I don't why
but when I connect a second NIC on the server nobody can use the database,
when I put disable the second NIC everybody use ????? ( the MS routing
servcie require a second NIC, but work when this NIC is disable too)
I tried to use with RAS too but the msg is same.
Currently I am using the terminal service but this is a bad solution for me,
because I need the application running on the remote computer (client).
I you said that "We have several customers running Advantage applications
through VPN..." please say me how they have configure the VPN, because my
configuration isn't working with "Advantage Database"... (with MS SQL 7.0
work fine...)
Thank you
Carlos Guanes
"Chris Franz" <chrisf@extendsys.com> wrote in message
news:39b7d2fb@solutions.advantagedatabase.com...
> Jonathan,
>
> We have several customers running Advantage applications through VPN
> connections.
>
> The 6420 error "Unable to find the Advantage Service or unable to find a
> bindery on the network" is usually caused by a name resolution problem.
You
> should make sure that you can resolve the NetBios name of the Server
running
> Advantage from your workstations. This can usually be resolved using
> DNS/WINS on your Windows 2000 server.
>
> The 6610 "Client comm layer timed out waiting for acknowledgment of
final
> burst of packets sent to the Advantage Database Server" can be caused if
> your firewall is not allowing UDP traffic in or out. You may need to
> configure your firewall to allow UDP traffic through the VPN port.
>
> Another option is to install the Advantage Application on the Windows
2000
> server and use Terminal Services on your client machines.
>
> Chris Franz
> Advantage Technical Services.
>
> "Jonathan Brown" <brown@prevail.net> wrote in message
> news:39b54c9d@solutions.advantagedatabase.com...
> > I am trying to setup a small VPN to test the speed of ADS using
DSL/Cable
> > connections. We have a potential client that would like to run our
> > application using a VPN that connects 5 remote offices to the main
office.
> > So far, I'm using Windows 95/98 machines connecting to a Windows 2000
> > machine. The application runs fine using ALS, but I am getting 6420 and
> 6610
> > errors when I try to use ADS. Is anyone out there successfully using ADS
> > across a VPN? If so, how speedy is it and how difficult is it to debug?
I
> > think the problem I am having has to do with our WebRamp firewall thing,
> but
> > I cannot confirm this.
> >
> > Jonathan Brown
> > Practice Technology, Inc.
> >
> >
>
>
Re: ADS and VPN
Karl Perry [Mar 15 2001, 00:07]
Carlos,
We have several clients using our app via Terminal Server. Tell me: why
MUST the client run on the remote machine? TS is really a better way to go,
IMHO.
Karl Perry
"Carlos Guanes" <cguanes@earthlink.com> wrote in message
news:3aaf6297@solutions.advantagedatabase.com...
> I have the same problem that Jonathan. My server is a Windows 2000 and my
> clients W98/W2k Pro. My connection is a DSL line and I haven't router, I
am
> using the routing service and the RASPPPOE protocol. When I connect to the
> server I can to do a ping "servername" or ping xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx, and on the
> server ping "clientname" ...working fine... I can map any share folder
and
> print on the share printer. But when I try to use my application I receive
> the error msg "Unable to find the Advantage Service or unable to find a
> bindery on the network". I have the Wins/DHCP on the server.
>
> I find the same error when installed a second NIC on the server, I don't
why
> but when I connect a second NIC on the server nobody can use the database,
> when I put disable the second NIC everybody use ????? ( the MS routing
> servcie require a second NIC, but work when this NIC is disable too)
>
> I tried to use with RAS too but the msg is same.
>
> Currently I am using the terminal service but this is a bad solution for
me,
> because I need the application running on the remote computer (client).
>
> I you said that "We have several customers running Advantage applications
> through VPN..." please say me how they have configure the VPN, because my
> configuration isn't working with "Advantage Database"... (with MS SQL 7.0
> work fine...)
>
> Thank you
>
>
> Carlos Guanes
>
>
> "Chris Franz" <chrisf@extendsys.com> wrote in message
> news:39b7d2fb@solutions.advantagedatabase.com...
> > Jonathan,
> >
> > We have several customers running Advantage applications through VPN
> > connections.
> >
> > The 6420 error "Unable to find the Advantage Service or unable to find
a
> > bindery on the network" is usually caused by a name resolution problem.
> You
> > should make sure that you can resolve the NetBios name of the Server
> running
> > Advantage from your workstations. This can usually be resolved using
> > DNS/WINS on your Windows 2000 server.
> >
> > The 6610 "Client comm layer timed out waiting for acknowledgment of
> final
> > burst of packets sent to the Advantage Database Server" can be caused if
> > your firewall is not allowing UDP traffic in or out. You may need to
> > configure your firewall to allow UDP traffic through the VPN port.
> >
> > Another option is to install the Advantage Application on the Windows
> 2000
> > server and use Terminal Services on your client machines.
> >
> > Chris Franz
> > Advantage Technical Services.
> >
> > "Jonathan Brown" <brown@prevail.net> wrote in message
> > news:39b54c9d@solutions.advantagedatabase.com...
> > > I am trying to setup a small VPN to test the speed of ADS using
> DSL/Cable
> > > connections. We have a potential client that would like to run our
> > > application using a VPN that connects 5 remote offices to the main
> office.
> > > So far, I'm using Windows 95/98 machines connecting to a Windows 2000
> > > machine. The application runs fine using ALS, but I am getting 6420
and
> > 6610
> > > errors when I try to use ADS. Is anyone out there successfully using
ADS
> > > across a VPN? If so, how speedy is it and how difficult is it to
debug?
> I
> > > think the problem I am having has to do with our WebRamp firewall
thing,
> > but
> > > I cannot confirm this.
> > >
> > > Jonathan Brown
> > > Practice Technology, Inc.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Re: ADS and VPN
Thomas Braun [WEGASOFT] [Mar 15 2001, 08:22]
Hi Karl,
> We have several clients using our app via Terminal Server. Tell me: why
> MUST the client run on the remote machine?
It does not neccesarily have to run on a remote machine, the only thing
you have to do is to connect to a shared folder either with
NET USE drive: computershare or use the share name directly when opening
the data files.
HTH
Thomas Braun
Re: ADS and VPN
Carlos Guanes [Mar 15 2001, 13:33]
I mapped the share drive... and tried with driveletter:path... and
nothing....(same error)
the TS is no my best solution because the software use a modem connection to
prepare and send orders to provider... and if I use the TS, I will need
connect several modem on the server. Currently the client that use TS cannot
send order just consult and reports
"Thomas Braun [WEGASOFT]" <support@wegasoft.de> wrote in message
news:3ab07319@solutions.advantagedatabase.com...
> Hi Karl,
>
> > We have several clients using our app via Terminal Server. Tell me: why
> > MUST the client run on the remote machine?
>
> It does not neccesarily have to run on a remote machine, the only thing
> you have to do is to connect to a shared folder either with
> NET USE drive: computershare or use the share name directly when
opening
> the data files.
>
> HTH
> Thomas Braun
>
>
Re: ADS and VPN
Karl Perry [Mar 15 2001, 20:12]
Carlos,
You might look into Extended Systems' RPM server. This is a 'middleware'
component that sits on the ADS server (generally, though it doesn't have to)
and services database access and business logic requests.
This separates your application system into three layers:
1. Interface layer, which exists on each client's pc as an executable.
2. Database layer (the Advantage Database Server), which resides on your
server.
3. Business Logic layer, which exists on a server (generally the same server
as ADS), is under the control of the RPM server, and contains all of your
logic for manipulating data.
We use this solution for our client management solution. The advantage of
this solution is that any time anyone needs any data, their app requests it
from the RPM server, the RPM server gets it from the ADS, and then passes
just the data required along to the client. Since there is no connection
whatever to the database from the client app, you have no issues with
database connection speed, no RAS to deal with, etc.
Our experience is that the only difference between using an RPM-enabled app
on a fast (100Mbps) network and over a 28.8 or slower dial-up connection is
the actual time to transmit the small data packets. In real terms, the app
starts just as quickly, and data requests take a second or so instead of
being instant.
I think Advantage has whitepapers about using RPM technology, and I'd highly
recommend it for long-distance apps over either TS or RAS.
Karl Perry
"Carlos Guanes" <cguanes@earthlink.com> wrote in message
news:3ab0b9c3@solutions.advantagedatabase.com...
> I mapped the share drive... and tried with driveletter:path... and
> nothing....(same error)
>
> the TS is no my best solution because the software use a modem connection
to
> prepare and send orders to provider... and if I use the TS, I will need
> connect several modem on the server. Currently the client that use TS
cannot
> send order just consult and reports
>
>
>
> "Thomas Braun [WEGASOFT]" <support@wegasoft.de> wrote in message
> news:3ab07319@solutions.advantagedatabase.com...
> > Hi Karl,
> >
> > > We have several clients using our app via Terminal Server. Tell me:
why
> > > MUST the client run on the remote machine?
> >
> > It does not neccesarily have to run on a remote machine, the only thing
> > you have to do is to connect to a shared folder either with
> > NET USE drive: computershare or use the share name directly when
> opening
> > the data files.
> >
> > HTH
> > Thomas Braun
> >
> >
>
>
Re: ADS and VPN
Carlos Guanes [Mar 15 2001, 21:43]
I'm a user (Systems administrator)... not a programmer... The software is
Medisoft 6.1 Client/Server and use you Database server software.
"Karl Perry" <kperry@animalintelligence.com> wrote in message
news:3ab11738@solutions.advantagedatabase.com...
> Carlos,
>
> You might look into Extended Systems' RPM server. This is a 'middleware'
> component that sits on the ADS server (generally, though it doesn't have
to)
> and services database access and business logic requests.
>
> This separates your application system into three layers:
>
> 1. Interface layer, which exists on each client's pc as an executable.
>
> 2. Database layer (the Advantage Database Server), which resides on your
> server.
>
> 3. Business Logic layer, which exists on a server (generally the same
server
> as ADS), is under the control of the RPM server, and contains all of your
> logic for manipulating data.
>
> We use this solution for our client management solution. The advantage of
> this solution is that any time anyone needs any data, their app requests
it
> from the RPM server, the RPM server gets it from the ADS, and then passes
> just the data required along to the client. Since there is no connection
> whatever to the database from the client app, you have no issues with
> database connection speed, no RAS to deal with, etc.
>
> Our experience is that the only difference between using an RPM-enabled
app
> on a fast (100Mbps) network and over a 28.8 or slower dial-up connection
is
> the actual time to transmit the small data packets. In real terms, the
app
> starts just as quickly, and data requests take a second or so instead of
> being instant.
>
> I think Advantage has whitepapers about using RPM technology, and I'd
highly
> recommend it for long-distance apps over either TS or RAS.
>
> Karl Perry
>
>
> "Carlos Guanes" <cguanes@earthlink.com> wrote in message
> news:3ab0b9c3@solutions.advantagedatabase.com...
> > I mapped the share drive... and tried with driveletter:path... and
> > nothing....(same error)
> >
> > the TS is no my best solution because the software use a modem
connection
> to
> > prepare and send orders to provider... and if I use the TS, I will need
> > connect several modem on the server. Currently the client that use TS
> cannot
> > send order just consult and reports
> >
> >
> >
> > "Thomas Braun [WEGASOFT]" <support@wegasoft.de> wrote in message
> > news:3ab07319@solutions.advantagedatabase.com...
> > > Hi Karl,
> > >
> > > > We have several clients using our app via Terminal Server. Tell me:
> why
> > > > MUST the client run on the remote machine?
> > >
> > > It does not neccesarily have to run on a remote machine, the only
thing
> > > you have to do is to connect to a shared folder either with
> > > NET USE drive: computershare or use the share name directly when
> > opening
> > > the data files.
> > >
> > > HTH
> > > Thomas Braun
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Re: ADS and VPN
Carlos Guanes [Mar 21 2001, 01:49]
What happening? Only one solution... change the software?
Please say me... Is the ADS Client/Server working with VPN? And why doesn't
work when I use two NIC on the server?
What routing protocols I need select on the Routing Service for the Medisoft
work?
"Carlos Guanes" <cguanes@earthlink.com> wrote in message
news:3ab12cc7@solutions.advantagedatabase.com...
> I'm a user (Systems administrator)... not a programmer... The software is
> Medisoft 6.1 Client/Server and use you Database server software.
>
>
>
> "Karl Perry" <kperry@animalintelligence.com> wrote in message
> news:3ab11738@solutions.advantagedatabase.com...
> > Carlos,
> >
> > You might look into Extended Systems' RPM server. This is a
'middleware'
> > component that sits on the ADS server (generally, though it doesn't have
> to)
> > and services database access and business logic requests.
> >
> > This separates your application system into three layers:
> >
> > 1. Interface layer, which exists on each client's pc as an executable.
> >
> > 2. Database layer (the Advantage Database Server), which resides on your
> > server.
> >
> > 3. Business Logic layer, which exists on a server (generally the same
> server
> > as ADS), is under the control of the RPM server, and contains all of
your
> > logic for manipulating data.
> >
> > We use this solution for our client management solution. The advantage
of
> > this solution is that any time anyone needs any data, their app requests
> it
> > from the RPM server, the RPM server gets it from the ADS, and then
passes
> > just the data required along to the client. Since there is no
connection
> > whatever to the database from the client app, you have no issues with
> > database connection speed, no RAS to deal with, etc.
> >
> > Our experience is that the only difference between using an RPM-enabled
> app
> > on a fast (100Mbps) network and over a 28.8 or slower dial-up connection
> is
> > the actual time to transmit the small data packets. In real terms, the
> app
> > starts just as quickly, and data requests take a second or so instead of
> > being instant.
> >
> > I think Advantage has whitepapers about using RPM technology, and I'd
> highly
> > recommend it for long-distance apps over either TS or RAS.
> >
> > Karl Perry
> >
> >
> > "Carlos Guanes" <cguanes@earthlink.com> wrote in message
> > news:3ab0b9c3@solutions.advantagedatabase.com...
> > > I mapped the share drive... and tried with driveletter:path... and
> > > nothing....(same error)
> > >
> > > the TS is no my best solution because the software use a modem
> connection
> > to
> > > prepare and send orders to provider... and if I use the TS, I will
need
> > > connect several modem on the server. Currently the client that use TS
> > cannot
> > > send order just consult and reports
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Thomas Braun [WEGASOFT]" <support@wegasoft.de> wrote in message
> > > news:3ab07319@solutions.advantagedatabase.com...
> > > > Hi Karl,
> > > >
> > > > > We have several clients using our app via Terminal Server. Tell
me:
> > why
> > > > > MUST the client run on the remote machine?
> > > >
> > > > It does not neccesarily have to run on a remote machine, the only
> thing
> > > > you have to do is to connect to a shared folder either with
> > > > NET USE drive: computershare or use the share name directly when
> > > opening
> > > > the data files.
> > > >
> > > > HTH
> > > > Thomas Braun
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Re: ADS and VPN
Karl Perry [Mar 21 2001, 17:05]
Carlos,
First, I don't work for Extended Systems, I'm "just a partner." Our firm
develops vertical market software solutions, and we have chosen Advantage as
the client/server backend database for our product.
Second (and you may not be able to respond tp this since you are not a
developer), you have to consider what you are trying to accomplish when you
look at various technologies for connecting remote users to a central
server. The idea is to allow users to have access to the database, and keep
your support and maintenance costs low.
In my opinion, a VPN solution using a relatively slow network wire - a phone
cable, or other slow Internet-connectivity solution such as ISDN or
sub-1.5Mbps DSL, is just too slow for use with the Advantage Database
Server. Advantage seems to require a fairly high amount of bandwidth when
Advantage-enabled applications start up. So, connecting remote workstations
to the server via a remote network connection and running the app from the
remote workstations is not a good option with Advantage.
Given the above, you have a couple of options.
First, use Terminal Server. The advantage is that your app stays on the
server and only screen updates and mouse/keyboard changes are transmitted
across the wire. The app runs very quickly, and the only bottleneck is the
speed of your connection. With this, even a 28.8Kbps modem connection will
give you fairly good response; if you run a faster connection response
increases. Keep your screen resolution to 800x600, and your color depth to
256, and you should get good response. A fast server with lots of RAM is a
benefit. The benefit here is that the app probably won't have to be
rewritten to work in this environment.
Second, RPM. This is a new technology, and brings advantages to remote
computing. However, it sounds like it won't be a good bet for you since
your company doesn't control the app.
Hope this clarifies. You'll have to find others more experienced than I to
explain why a second NIC in the server is a problem.
Karl
"Carlos Guanes" <cguanes@earthlink.com> wrote in message
news:3ab7fdde@solutions.advantagedatabase.com...
> What happening? Only one solution... change the software?
>
> Please say me... Is the ADS Client/Server working with VPN? And why
doesn't
> work when I use two NIC on the server?
> What routing protocols I need select on the Routing Service for the
Medisoft
> work?
>
>
>
>
> "Carlos Guanes" <cguanes@earthlink.com> wrote in message
> news:3ab12cc7@solutions.advantagedatabase.com...
> > I'm a user (Systems administrator)... not a programmer... The software
is
> > Medisoft 6.1 Client/Server and use you Database server software.
> >
> >
> >
> > "Karl Perry" <kperry@animalintelligence.com> wrote in message
> > news:3ab11738@solutions.advantagedatabase.com...
> > > Carlos,
> > >
> > > You might look into Extended Systems' RPM server. This is a
> 'middleware'
> > > component that sits on the ADS server (generally, though it doesn't
have
> > to)
> > > and services database access and business logic requests.
> > >
> > > This separates your application system into three layers:
> > >
> > > 1. Interface layer, which exists on each client's pc as an executable.
> > >
> > > 2. Database layer (the Advantage Database Server), which resides on
your
> > > server.
> > >
> > > 3. Business Logic layer, which exists on a server (generally the same
> > server
> > > as ADS), is under the control of the RPM server, and contains all of
> your
> > > logic for manipulating data.
> > >
> > > We use this solution for our client management solution. The
advantage
> of
> > > this solution is that any time anyone needs any data, their app
requests
> > it
> > > from the RPM server, the RPM server gets it from the ADS, and then
> passes
> > > just the data required along to the client. Since there is no
> connection
> > > whatever to the database from the client app, you have no issues with
> > > database connection speed, no RAS to deal with, etc.
> > >
> > > Our experience is that the only difference between using an
RPM-enabled
> > app
> > > on a fast (100Mbps) network and over a 28.8 or slower dial-up
connection
> > is
> > > the actual time to transmit the small data packets. In real terms,
the
> > app
> > > starts just as quickly, and data requests take a second or so instead
of
> > > being instant.
> > >
> > > I think Advantage has whitepapers about using RPM technology, and I'd
> > highly
> > > recommend it for long-distance apps over either TS or RAS.
> > >
> > > Karl Perry
> > >
> > >
> > > "Carlos Guanes" <cguanes@earthlink.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3ab0b9c3@solutions.advantagedatabase.com...
> > > > I mapped the share drive... and tried with driveletter:path... and
> > > > nothing....(same error)
> > > >
> > > > the TS is no my best solution because the software use a modem
> > connection
> > > to
> > > > prepare and send orders to provider... and if I use the TS, I will
> need
> > > > connect several modem on the server. Currently the client that use
TS
> > > cannot
> > > > send order just consult and reports
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Thomas Braun [WEGASOFT]" <support@wegasoft.de> wrote in message
> > > > news:3ab07319@solutions.advantagedatabase.com...
> > > > > Hi Karl,
> > > > >
> > > > > > We have several clients using our app via Terminal Server. Tell
> me:
> > > why
> > > > > > MUST the client run on the remote machine?
> > > > >
> > > > > It does not neccesarily have to run on a remote machine, the only
> > thing
> > > > > you have to do is to connect to a shared folder either with
> > > > > NET USE drive: computershare or use the share name directly
when
> > > > opening
> > > > > the data files.
> > > > >
> > > > > HTH
> > > > > Thomas Braun
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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